Prayer
Father in heaven we come in humility asking that you teach and be with us. I ask that you comfort these men that you are their leader. We ask that you use the most ignorant, corrupted men, like Mr. Botkin here, to learn and raise us up.
We want to talk about the reformation of a broken civilization. Men need to learn how to think like free men.
A 1626 German farmer decided to build a home on the foundations of his grandfather’s house. Digging around the stone foundation, he discovered a secret compartment. Down deep he found a treasure: a book wrapped in waxed paper, perfectly preserved. He knew the book’s story. By edict of emperor Rudolphus, anyone owning a copy of Cololquia Mensalia would be executed. It is estimated that storm troopers burned 80,000 copies of this popular book and it was forgotten. The farmer sent it to an English captain, asked that it be published ‘for the glory of God.’ The captain did not have time before he was arrested and sent to the
The book was this: Young men wanted to know how Luther’s mind worked and how it was that Luther could think and then act as other men could not. Luther was creative, decisive and Biblical in how he thought. Young men spent time at Luther’s dinner table recording nearly every word as Luther gave simple opinions on astrology, lawyers, universities the the Pope, the bureaucracy, ghosts, bad theology, religious ceremony, hypocrisy, superstition, astrology, literature, marriage… It was Luther’s Q &A.
The disciplines of informed thought in action are necessary to the reformation of a broken world.
Luther had a lot of opinions. What intrigued young men was that Luther started his thoughts with scripture.
I want to thank you for your questions. You are thinking biblically. We do not have a pope breathing down our necks, but today we are captive to wrong thinking in a corrupt
We want to be like reformers by teaching other men how to think.
Courtship is a good topic of study because it embraces parenthood, the
I can only give you principles of what the Bible says. Marriage is in Bible; courtship is not. Fathers need wisdom, discretion. I will dive into other topics.
Q: How have you worked within your own church to spread the vision of Biblical Christian courtship and marriage? We have a great church which has a reasonable handle on Christian marriage but is not self-consciously engaged with true dominion thinking in this area.
A: Most common concern I get is: ‘Mr. B, the church is hurting our family.’ I will not be giving you formulas.
You may be an accomplice in, as John Calvin said, ‘an illegal assembly.’ You need to be in churches where you have respect as men. This does not mean you need to be officers in church, but where the men are shepherding and leading, not going along blindly. You have a duty and obligation, in submission to elders, to exercise your gifts, talents and abilities.
You have a duty in the culture of your home. I try to be in churches where I can encourage, “Lets help young people to have purposeful relationships and kingdom conversation.” Otherwise, we are led by Christian radio. How can we create cultures in our churches where old people are valued, babies are valued?
We need mature behavior, not giddy about who is courting who. We need healthy brother sister interaction going on all the time. End man centered marriage. Old women say to little ones, ‘do you have a girlfriend?’ Stop these silly comments. I also discourage snickering; I encourage healthy conversation about men and work. Marriage is to serve God together.
We need to build a culture of healthy conversations between brothers and sisters in Christ, so that they are gaining knowledge about one another in healthy family environments, where young people can know a lot about one another without being in a romantic relationship.
Q: What are the phases of courtship? Friendship > Fellowship > Romance > Marriage
A: Here is a disclaimer. This is NOT formulaic. This question came in during the last session, right after I said I could give no formula. No situation, courtship will ever be ideal. We have a corrupt dating culture that is in all our minds. We are trying to create a culture of marriage, not a culture of courtship. Here are principles that I find helpful:
1 Parents train children for responsible marriage from a young age, from what ever age they are. Start at age 2, 3, 4.
2 Children take responsibility at a young age to prepare themselves for marriage. Take the responsibility to be mature, to grow to be a decisive Christian husband or wife.
3 Fathers learn about their sons and daughters minds and preferences. A father will not give good advice if he does not know their mind and preference. Spend time with your children, learning about them. Know her heart.
4 Sons make aggressive plans to start their own dynasties. Think about marriage as something important and good from a young age. One father told me he talks to his sons about how to build their house. He said, ‘I’d love them to go into marriage with at least $1,000 of passive income per month from investments they made while young.’ As a result, his sons are thinking at age 9, 10, 11 years how to invest wisely. He is helping his sons envision plans, praying about their future wife, thinking about talents and gifts.
5 Sons should never presume that the system is so broken they cannot have an intelligent and productive relationship with the fathers of eligible girls. In churches with a culture of snickering, he can’t hold door open for her without getting the wrong attention. Sons need to start friendships with men. You need to be walking with wise men. Stand with men who are talking about big issues of the community. Men observe how you solve problems.
6 The older men set a culture of friendly family interaction and lots of FRIENDLY brotherly and sisterly conversations between young people as a healthy culture distinctive of Christian civilization.
7 Sons take initiative with fathers. I know fathers who make recommendations. I don’t do that. I like it when they come to me and ask, ‘I’m limited in knowledge, can you advise me? What books can I read? Your daughter impresses me. I don’t know much about her, I think she will make someone a wonderful wife. Can I have some time to get to know her better?’ Not ‘I’ve been getting visions from God that she is to be my wife.’ What if fathers are not reasonable? Appeal to him. Talk to others. Young men, take initiative. Don’t assume fathers will be so foolish to jump to the instant romance conclusion.
8 Fathers evaluate potential candidates for courtship. ‘Sir would you consider me as a candidate for courtship? Young men need to be asking this. Fathers need to be honoring a young man’s time. ‘I will pray and talk about this, let me get back to you tomorrow.’ Is this man suitable for my daughter? Be decisive, evaluate, honoring time. ‘You have great taste in young women. I don’t think it would work; you are like this and she is like this so different.’ Another answer, ‘You have great taste, but you are probably a couple years away from marriage because of these character deficiencies, would you consider letting me help you prepare?’
Q: A young man approached me. My daughter was not interested. Can I mentor a young man my daughter will not marry? Yes. Voddie says we are going to have to create these young men by discipling them. This is a great opportunity. I told one young man, “I commend you for honoring this jurisdiction. I don’t think it would work. I invite you to hang out here at our home. You are a friend of the family. We can have a brother and sister relationship. Come over to spend time with me and the family, drop in for dinner. It was not awkward. It really helped him. Yes, fathers can be doing that and help prepare him for marriage to another girl. It was not long before he came to get advice about marriage to another young lady. I so respected this young man for the way he conducted himself. I loved to see him growing in his trust, asking advice of me. He learned wonderful things that have helped him.
9 Fathers determine the daughter’s interest. Some families think differently. This is not a hard and fast formula for marriage. You can think differently. Some fathers do not mention things to her. I have talked to my daughters and they can keep a cool head. I spend time with my girls about these interests. Talk about men we know. Have you notice how this one is rising up and leading? What do you think about him? Then I know what they esteem and respect in men they know. So I have a pretty good idea of what my girls think. When one comes, I say, ‘I respect you, I’d be happy to have you as my son-in-law. Let me go to my daughter; I want to check with her, pray about this, I’ll let you know what we think tomorrow.’
Or ‘My daughter does not know you very well. It’s going to be a real long shot, a few months for me to get to know you well. Do you want to invest this time? I’m giving you the most honest answer I can.’ The young man can make decision and maybe pray about a different young lady. Honor a young man’s time and your daughter’s preferences.
10 Fathers can create an informal ‘family friendship’ or ‘correspondence’ season to help the parties involved. You don’t need a courtship; it is not in the Bible. ‘We live 6 states away. Let’s have an informal season. You can e-mail my daughter; copy me on e-mails. Get to know each other. See how it goes. If either of you see that you want to close things off, we can stop it then.
11 Fathers approve/clear/endorse the young man for marriage before any official courtship begins. This may take 6 hours or 6 months or 16 months. He needs to be comfortable with the young man marrying his daughter. A successful courtship is not necessarily marriage. Once courtship begins, there are emotions, risks. There are places on the internet where you can get 100 questions for a young man. Some ask him to write a paper on what is important to you, like the significance of 5 Solas. A young man will do this to help a father sign him off if he thinks your daughter is worth fighting for. He’ll say, “Ask me anything about my past…”
12 If it is wise to proceed; fathers set guidelines. “I know you are honorable. Here are guidelines for courtship to proceed.” Here are principles but young adults need guidelines. This is not a time to steal each others’ hearts; this is an honest dispassionate evaluation. You are working a reasonable conclusion soon.
13 Courtship begins.
14 Fathers shepherd the process and help the parties maintain objectivity. They are going to lose some objectivity. You don’t want your daughter to come to you later and say, ‘Daddy, why didn’t you didn’t protect me better? I don’t even know if he is really a Christian.’ This is happening. It is a tragedy.
If they are losing objectivity, you can say ‘let’s take a little breather, till feet you get back on the ground. If young man and your daughter are honorable they will accept this.
15 The couple maintains objectivity and emotional purity and stewards time and investment of all parties. Ask questions. Your daughter needs to ask these questions. She will give form to his life. What do you think abut birthdays? Sports? Vaccinations? TV in the home? Food? Diet?
16 The couple comes to a decision as soon as possible about compatibility, and the wisdom of marriage to one another.
17 The couple gets council.
18 They decide it is God’s will for them to be joined in a holy mission for Christ.
19 Engagement and covenant terms are defined and discussed. What is betrothal? Now is the time to express affection and love.
20 Short engagement/betrothal commences. Most reformers agreed: make it short. What about the big production? You might want to pass on the helicopter, the limo, the camera crew, the blimp and get on with the mission.
21 Have a public marriage with witnesses, covenant and consummation.
Q: How long should a courtship last? Is there such a thing as lasting too long? If a young man is in college, is a protected courtship of say 2-3 years ok?
A: I can see where there might be a reason. But if you determine in a courtship that you should be together, shouldn’t she join his endeavor and be there to help him? Why is she interested in a guy in college, anyway? Mainly, with very few exceptions, college is a place for losers to get a document to be a wage slave. Most don’t know how to teach themselves. If he does have vision, and knows his vision, she might need to be with him.
Q: I am aware where a potential father-in-law makes unreasonable demands.
A: If young lady is worth fighting for, go to her dad, not around him. Appeal to him. If her dad says, ‘Can you come stay with us for two weeks, so we can get to know you better.’ If she is worth it, do that. Courtship often starts with no idea of what guidelines are. Ask him, “I’d like to have your blessing to marry your daughter. I’d like to be sure you are satisfied with me as a future son-in-law. Because once this starts, I want to know you are completely comfortable with me before that.”
Q: I have a stay-at-home vocation that I think will be good for a family. However, it is not economically viable yet. Should I wait to marry until it is viable or should I find something else outside of the home that is more viable? I am 30-years-old, but different advisors have told me that it is better to get married sooner than later.
A: What is financially viable? The world says it is so expensive. Maybe this business is not economically viable because you do not have a wife to help you.
Q: I have a daughter in her late 20’s who is finishing her degree at home, desiring to be married. We have found it difficult to find like minded people in our area. Do you have suggestions?
A: Patrick Henry had 17 children, including lots of daughters. He moved to the city where they were able to marry. Pieces of real estate pale in comparison to starting a godly dynasty. You may need to move out of the country to do this. The Botkin family did this. Help your sons and daughters find godly mates. [or travel there]
Q: Are birthdays in the Bible and do we make them special in our children’s lives?
A: The reformers asked these questions. Do we sit down for dinner? Do we gobble up food before we sit down? The word ‘Gospel’ means ‘birth announcement of the divine savior king.’ It was also used to describe Caesar’s decrees and laws edicts. The scripture tells of feast days on days of weaning and circumcision. You can make a godly big deal out of a birthday. “One thing, on birthdays, make sure your children really honor their mother. This was the day of great risk and sacrifice for [her].
Q: Can a father disciple a young man who is still under his father’s roof?
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